Community Forums Industry Issues

Back to apprenticeship?

Fred44 - 03:03pm / 5 days ago

With the economy strong and labor market tight, finding skilled workers is hard these days. In the past, shops had a steady flow of workers coming from apprenticeship programs. Though some programs are still in place, this practice is largely forgotten. Maybe quality workers could be more easily found if we revisit this practice.

(1.)

Are there any good trade programs still out there? Seems like young people thesedays wanna be the next Bill Gates and study comptuers rather than be a machine tool operator.

(2.)

There seems to be a lot of opportunities and trade schools/programs in the major metro areas where there are a lot of immigrants entering. New York, Chicago, cities in California, Texas where heavy industry still plays an important role. Actually, because of the movement into high-tech, opportunities in these types of cities appear readily available.

(3.)

A recent Forbes magazine article talks about the lack of young people taking machinery jobs and the efforts of industry associations to provide youth outreach and education.

The full-text article can be found at: http://forbes.com/forbes/98/0921/6206172a.htm

(3.1)

I looked over this article, and it is a perfect explanation! I think young people have a certain image of machinery work that is way off...until they enter the industry. I honestly didn't realize how much I would enjoy this work until I had my apprenticeship. If more kids would hear about the success stories like those in this article, I think we'd have a much larger pool of potential machine workers in the near future.

I can't even count how many people I know that got a 4-year degree they do NOTHING with. I'm happy I was able to get my education, my training, and a good-paying job I love. I wish more young people would recognize this opportunity.

(3.1.1)

as a former apprentice, i would have to agree that not enough emphasis is placed on students early on while they are still in school. i was lucky, i had a wonderful shop teacher who inspired me to pursue metalwork.

rather than looking at how the job force has changed, perhaps we should look to see how the educational system has changed. i know that in my years out of high school, my alma mater has scaled back on it's shop programs. how do we expect to attract fresh blood into the field if we do not have a solid foundation on which to build?

(3.1.2)

Right on Dallas!

(4.)

In 1986 I was looking for an apprenticeship program and couldn't find one. So what I did was join the navy and took advantage of their Tech. schools. There I learned the Skills Required to perform the machinists trade. My schools included basic machine pratices, benchwork and layout. After the first school I went to the fleet and performed these duties as a machinists. Later into my carrier I attended an addvanced machining school which included Precision grinding and balancing, Metal build up and production machine setup, And advanced Milling operations ( Manufacturing of gears stub tooth, spur, bevel, worm and worm wheel) After 10 Years I decided to get out and get into machining in the civilian sector and found out that a Skilled Machinists is a rare thing. Most of the people are Machine Operators not machinsits. So you wounder whats my pont, My point is that as computers take the place of people in this field and many others, skilled people are going to become a rare thing and so will the schools needed to keep it going.

(5.)

Thanks for sharing your experiences about training in the Armed Forces, Leo. We all appreciate your thoughts on where you see the industry going in this area. Has anyone else had similar experiences?

Steve Tanner
MachineTools.com Community Moderator

(6.)

Schools wont be needed like Leo said. what good are apprenticeships these days, anyways? You just serve your time and no one checks to see if you learned anything. It's like, here, look at this....but the students never get the experience doing that. Seems like in-house training is the best area for this.

(7.)

We have decided to undergo our own apprenticeship training in house. Currently, there are six "students" that meet once a week in our conference room for a one hour lecture, including topics like tool geometry, cutting forces, material composition, workholding, etc. The students come from our shipping/recieving, abrasive finishing, stockroom, and other areas in the shop. Then at different times during the week there is some supervised training on a machine with an in house "mentor". These younger employees, who were not hired as machinists, are getting the technical exposure they need to decide if they want to go further. If one or two of these students decide a machining career is right for them, then perhaps it will be worth it. We are a jobbing machine shop large enough that each department (machining and non-machining) has enough people to accomodate covering job duties when the "students" aren't there. Not to say that this is for everyone, but it is something we decided to try.

(8.)

Seems like your company has really embraced future training, Jonnyboy. I was wondering if there is any sort of testing or skills training that you put these "recruits" through.

(8.1)

Currently, the discussions are based on the president of the company's experience (60+ years). The only text that has been reviewed has been The Henry Ford Trade School (1943) Shop Theory. It is hoped that by examining the basic machines and procedures contained within that text that the students are exposed to where machining came from, to have a historical foundation to stand on. We are currently reviewing current literature for the next phase in training, any suggestions anyone has would be helpful.

(9.)

Many of the leading trade orgs endorse the NIMS standard for training. These guidelines probably should be applied to any sort of intership program as well...would definelty prepare new workers

(10.)

In reply to Johnnyboy. I am glad to see a company doing this. I often thought of opening a shop using it to train either tech grads or basically anyone that wants to learn the art of machining. My grand father was a machinists with the old belt driven lathes and drill press. Little is left to his shop now. I would be glad to help out where ever I can with the training of machinists, I still have the training manuals I learned from and they are pretty good I think. The book included a questions like a correspondent course. I In the Navy we had weekly training on the machines and set ups. Now that I think back it was a good thing. I would love to teach the art of machining. Just trying to find the right place.

(11.)

Youngsters today have no sense of direction. Years ago When I graduated High school, (1978), most people went to college and had knew what they'd be doing upon graduating, albeit 30k-70k in debt. I was taking that route as well. I dropped out of college with one trimester to go. I was not being prepared for real-world situations. The classic apprenticeships I served have tought me more real world experience than any schooling could ever teach you. To be successful at it you must have a desire to learn, realize that you are going to cost the company money while you are learning. Show loyalty to the company and your mentors. Don't leave for twenty-five cents an hour more after your four years. If you start with a good broad base of manual skills, the progression to CNC will be considerably easier. "I don't want to get my hands dirty!" We haven't heard that one lately have we guys. "I'm a data entry specialist, I work with computers." Big stinking deal! Forget your title, learn a trade and you'll being making 2-4 times as much money. Chances are you'll get to wear jeans to work as well. The blue-collar, white collar thing is a thing of the past. With the capital investment required in this industry, I don't want some monkey running my pieces of equipment. Realize that you are making an investment in another persons future as well as your own. I didn't mean to go off on this big rant. Bottom-line embrace the skills of the older journeymen, get qualified, motivated youth, nurture them, treat them as the professionals that they are to be. Let them know it is ok to work with a company as well as for it.

(12.)

Marshman, what do YOU do now?

(13.)

Another advantage of pushing apprenticeship is the Skilled Workforce Enhancement Act. If Congress passes this piece of legislation, shops will be able to recover some of their apprentice training costs in the form of a tax credit. Now there is motivation!

  johnwhill - 05:56pm / Today (14.)

I was apprenticed as a toolmaker 32 years ago. I went to school 3 nights a week from 6:30 PM - 9:00 PM, sat block exams every year for 4 years and then sat for my toolmakers certificate. I am now machine shop manager for a aircraft gas turbine engine repair and overhaul facility. There are only two groups of people working in the machine shop, licensed machinist and apprentice machinist.We hire mainly apprentices. The company pays for their training. Every year we send the apprentices away to block release for 6 weeks and pay for their tuition. We are now approaching a level where 40% of the journeymen in the shop started out with the company. Apprenticeship is the only way to go.

(15.)

Guys that was all pretty interesting. I am a High School teacher. I have been in Special Education for the last 14 years. I just picked up my endorcement to teach Industrial Education this last month. I used to be a tool and die maker with Koenig Iron Works before I went into teaching. I became a journey-man tool maker with that company and while I was there trained two other people to the art of machining. It was a great job and a wonderful feeling when you can give back to the trade like that. So I must admit I too feel that aprenticeship is the way to go.I do wish more companies had it available to people, and if they do they should make it better known.

(15.1)

Hi joelzr I'am Ed a 1964 graduate apprentice from General Electric at Lynn, Mass, i.e. Machinest-Tool and die maker we put the people up in space. I feel very strong about the apprentice programs. My big problem is it is too watered down, today . Evey onecan get in, because they are a minority and noone says where the cut off point is. Back in 1960 we had to take a six hour test, only one in four ever graduated. I was lucky, I loved my job, I couldn't believe I was working with the Big boys, Today, I am Retired from G.E. but i have nothing but good feelings about the Trade.

Community Forums Industry Issues Back to apprenticeship?